On February 1, Myanmar’s military seized power in early morning coup. Almost immediately, citizens from across the country rose up in protest. Originating with health care workers, the protest movement quickly spread to encompass diverse communities and constituencies. Despite increased military intimidation in the form of nighttime arrests, use of force, and internet shortages, the largely youth-led civil disobedience movement has proven defiant.
The protests have shown both extraordinary creativity and pragmatic coordination to provide mutual aid support for striking government employees and to forge trans-national alliances. In this deeply religious country, religious clergy, symbols, practices, charity networks, and places of worship have all featured as part of the protest landscape.
In this online discussion, Burmese and Thai activists of diverse backgrounds analyzed the religious dimensions of both the coup and the response to it, demonstrating how an understanding of the religious dimension of current events can contribute to a fuller understanding of what is taking place.
Speakers:
- Wai Wai Nu, Founder and Executive Director, Women Peace Network
- David Moe, PhD Candidate, Asbury Theological Seminary
- Somboon Chungrampree, International Network of Engaged Buddhists
This event took place on March 10, 2021.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
[MUSIC PLAYING]
DIANE MOORE: Welcome to our discussion on the religious dimensions of Myanmar's protests. I'm Diane Moore, and I'm the Faculty Director of Religion and Public Life at Harvard Divinity School, one of three co-sponsors of this event. My other two co-sponsors, our other two co-sponsors are the Asia Center at Harvard University and Harvard Law School's International Human Rights Clinic.
I want to welcome the over 200 members of the audience who are joining us this evening. Grateful to have you with us. I especially want to welcome and thank our panelists this evening, David, Wai Wai, and Moo who will be sharing their reflections about their insights and experiences.
I, like all of you, have been watching what's been taking place in Myanmar, equally inspired and humbled by the protests and horrified by the brutality of the military attacks against unarmed democratic protesters. There's been a decent amount of coverage, thankfully, about the events unfolding in Myanmar but very little about the religious dimensions of what is unfolding there.
And that's why I'm especially honored to co-sponsor and very eager for this evening's discussion. I want to introduce the event's facilitator and organizer, my friend and colleague, Susan Hayward, who's a visiting fellow with us here at the Religion and Public Life program this year as well as an HDS alumna and a long-time friend. Susan's own scholarship and professional work focuses on the intersection of religion, violence, and peace.
And she has both knowledge of and deep relationship with the community of peace builders and activists in Myanmar in particular. Some of whom are with us this evening. And I'm going to turn it over now to you, Susan. And thanks again to all of you for being with us and especially to our panelists.
SUSAN HAYWARD: Thank you, Diane. And thanks to all of you who have joined us tonight and especially those of you who are joining us from Asia. Good morning, and hello from yesterday. As I open, I am going to share with all of you some images to illustrate the topic we will be discussing today. We'll return to discuss some of these particular images later on in the discussion.
Those of you who have been to Myanmar can attest. It is a deeply religious place. Religious symbols, practices, sacred spaces, religious charity networks, they all play visible and fundamental roles in Myanmar's social, political, and economic life especially those Buddhist in this majority Buddhist country but also Christian, Muslim, indigenous, Sikh, Hindu, and other traditions found in this extraordinarily diverse country.
During the previous long military regime from 1962 to 2011, religious networks often tended to the needs, both material and spiritual, of people who were suffering. And the relationship between religion and the nation state. In particular, the privileged place of Buddhism within the state and nation has long been a source of tension and contestation between communities.
Meanwhile, major political movements in Myanmar, from the anticolonial movement to the 1988 Democratic Uprising and of course, the 2007 Saffron Revolution led by Buddhist monks and nuns, have all had fairly significant religious dimensions to them. The current democratic protests, which erupted immediately following the February 1 seizure of power by the military, are not led by religious figures but by young people, mostly LIG.
And the response of high-level religious authorities to the protest have illustrated what historian Scott Appleby refers to as the ambivalence of the sacred, the tendency for religious actors and ideas to respond ambivalently to violence. As we'll learn, some have supported the coup or have sought to remain neutral in the midst of the conflict that's taking place, while some have actively resisted the coup and the military by participating in the protests.
And we're seeing some of the images of that. But nevertheless, religious ideas, religious symbols, institutions, actors, they've all played a role in the protests themselves, drawn on by activists often in very creative ways in order to empower the protests with a certain sacred power to imbue a sense of cultural and moral resonance within the protests and to embrace a national vision of religious pluralism that is celebrated.
And that is the goal of the federal democracy that the protests are mobilizing on behalf of. So we have three activists, who currently reside outside Myanmar, who are here to explore these things with us today. David Moe is a Christian from Chin State and a PhD candidate in theology at Asbury Theological Seminary. Wai Wai Nu is a Rohingya activist currently based in DC running the Women's Peace Network.
And Somboon Chungrampee, who goes by the nickname Moo, is joining us from Bangkok where he leads the International Network of Engaged Buddhists. But before they speak, I have a bit of a surprise tonight which is that we're going to begin with a video presentation that was sent to us by two more Burmese activists. These are both Buddhists. One is a Bamar who is based in Yangon who prefers to remain anonymous.
And another is a Shan Buddhist who is based in Sri Lanka, a woman named Nong Nong Hom, whose voice you'll hear in the video. Given a short time frame, I unfortunately cannot show the video in its entirety. But I will show three clips. And after that, we will then hear from David, Wai Wai, and Moo and then have a facilitated discussion. We do hope to have time at the very end to answer one or two questions from the audience.
And so we invite you to submit your questions in the Q&A window down at the bottom at any time. Some of them, we'll be able to respond to in writing as we go. Other audience members have the ability to vote on the questions that they also want to have answered. And so we'll try to-- if time permits-- to answer one or two that seem most popular at the bottom. We'll also leave the chat window open, so you can continue to introduce yourself and where you're calling from if you haven't already.
We just ask that everybody, please be respectful in your chats. And finally, before we begin, I want to take a moment to honor those in Myanmar, also known as Burma, who are courageously protesting against the brutal military, armed only with their conviction. Much of what we will share today, we know-- thanks to their courage in sharing images and stories from the front lines despite the risk in being there and in sharing those stories on social media.
And I want to honor, especially, the 60 plus protesters who we know have been killed by sharing some lines of poetry written by one of those fallen heroes, K Zar Win as translated by Ko Ko Thett. K Zar Win wrote this poem, which is entitled "Letter From a Jail Cell," while in prison several years ago after participating in educational reform protests.
"A thief is unarmed. A thug is armed to the teeth. If thieves are ungovernable, if thugs are ungovernable, what's the point of government? Whatever happens to the jungles, whatever happens to the mountains, whatever happens to the rivers, they don't care. They love the country just the way they love to grate a coconut from inside out for coconut milk. Plinth by plinth, to make their throne taller. They will point their guns at the urna on the Lord Buddha's forehead.
Their class is that crass, to cuss at that class if your religion forbids you. Allow me to lose that religion. I will turn the air blue on your behalf." May the memory of K Zar Win and his words and the memory of all those who fallen inspire us in our collective work for love and justice. And with that, let me now share the video remarks sent to us from our two Burmese Buddhist friends.
[VIDEO PLAYBACK]
- I would like to start with how Buddhist monks and nuns are responding to the protests. We can categorize the responses of Buddhist monks and nuns in three different categories. The first group are those who strongly support military coup. In addition, they also criticize and disturb the protests and civilian movement. Majority of them are the supporter of military USDP and Nationalist activity.
Some monks who were involved in 2007 Saffron Revolution also participated in supporting military coup. Although many monks actively participate with civilian in 1988 and 2007 Revolution, some of them, including senior monk, disagree with the secular political approach of NLD government. They believe Buddhism and Buddhist clergy are entitled to have special privileges. They want to be treated especially superiority and way above the other religious clergy.
The second group of Buddhist monks and nuns are those who neither show their support to military coup nor agree with civilian protests against a coup. They are the largest populations of Buddhist clergy. This category of monks and nuns perceive who ever come to power, they are to accept the new government as well as the other nations would support.
They fear that there will be more dangerous and bad consequences happen to them if they show their agreement with any political party or show solidarity with people. Some of the clergy in this group simply don't want to mix religion and politics. They prefer to focus only on religious ritual and charity. The third group of Buddhist monks and nuns are those who show strong condemnations on military coups and actively participate in civilian protests.
The majority of monks and nuns in this group are younger generation who are educated in good Buddhist literature and modern education. In this group, there are very limited participation of influential and senior monks. The monks and nuns in this group are against military coup's violent crackdown and military dictatorship with strong, courageous, and clear voice.
They are the key player behind the monks organization and Buddhist institution which issue many statements to condemn military coups and acts of violence against civilians. Next, I would like to highlight on how military use Buddhism to legitimate its action. Right after the declaration of the NLD winning over USDP, the Chief Military Council visited two powerful and influential leading monks from various parts of Myanmar.
The picture of [INAUDIBLE] and visit were uploaded on USDP Facebook. Right after very first military coup, [INAUDIBLE] General Min Aung Hlaing went for arms to nation at the famous In Bin Monastery in Mandalay. He went to pay homage to [INAUDIBLE] in Sagaing, and instruct Mandalay Division Military Council to visit States [INAUDIBLE] Counselor, Chairman [INAUDIBLE]. They also invited religious leaders from different religions for a meeting to show their roles of religious leader in the military council.
At the same time, the houses of worship, which were closed during a pandemic, were forced to reopen. This strictly order to hold a national Buddhist examination for monks and nuns. However, some senior monks refused to hold a Buddhist examination. Now, they are urgently prepared for a Big Supreme Award-Giving Ceremony which related to religion and Sasana.
They forcefully held this examination and organized a high-level ceremony in order to show the country's stability and prosperity after they take over the power. They aim to gain more credibility and trust by showing their support to religious prosperity. Here, I would like to share more on Buddhist idea are being used to guide protester. Many people are clear on the situation as competition between dharma and adharma which is justice and injustice.
People make clear that this is a revolution of truth. And this is a revolution against injustice and unlawful act by a military dictator. The strength of unity is essential in this revolution of truth, justice, and freedom. We, people, also understood and critique the wars that military will use weapon and also [INAUDIBLE] in their greed and hunger of power. Even though it has been over a month-long protest, people are holding the same level of hope, unity, strength, and confidence against military dictatorship in all sort of peaceful means.
In Myanmar, we grew up with high authoritarian culture, questioning to the high-position monks, religious leader, teachers and elders are discouraged, prohibited, and even sometimes, would get punished. Older generations and those in position are more knowledgeable, wiser so that they are to guide and to lead. This is the common belief. However, during Spring Revolution, younger generation are courageously questioning to the senior monks and those who are in power.
The younger generation take on leadership role at the front line with the humble and respectful support from older generation from behind. We can also witness the culture of mutual respect, learning from each other, co-creation among generation becomes strengthening. This beautifully reflect on the Buddha teaching of [INAUDIBLE], the reverent and humility culture in social relation.
In bigger picture, from the unity and solidarity among people during the Spring Revolution, we could collectively challenge nationalism, Buddhist radicalization, and governization which are deeply rooted in our society. In the Spring Revolution, regardless of differences in gender, religion, ethnicity, social status, political party, and age, we come together in one platform with one common mission which is to take down military dictatorship and build democratic federal unions. Thank you very much.
[END PLAYBACK]
SUSAN HAYWARD: And with that, we'll now turn to our speakers who join us beginning with David. And then after, we'll hear from Wai Wai and then Moo. And then I'll return for a facilitated discussion. So David, over to you.
DAVID MOE: Thank you. Thank you so much, Susan, for your kind introductions and for inviting us to be part of this panel. Today, I would like to share with you about three different groups of Christians, those who response to the military government. Myanmar has been a military government since 1962. Leaving with that context, there are three different groups of Christians in Myanmar. The first group is what I will call Politicians Christians.
They are involved in politics as a politicians. And some of them are the ethnic rebels. Because when the military emerged in 1962, some ethnic rebels came out with their weapons to fight against the military government. The first group is involved in a politics with their calling, with their convictions. Those are the Politicians Christians. And the second group is Apolitical Christians, I'll call them. These Christians are theologically conservative, or we will say, they are fundamentalists.
They don't want to be involved in politics even though politics is involved in their life. They want to stay away from politics. And they feel that their calling, their ministry is not to be in politics. And also, this group of Christians looking forward to these other world issues rather than this world issue. Some people might say that involving in politics is-- this is a liberal. This has nothing to do with our Christian faith. So the second group is trying to stay away from politics.
And the third group is what I would call Prophetic Christians. These Christians are bigger than the first and the second group, in my view. In this group, there are a number of intellectual Christians, pastors, and there are some lay Christians. They feel that resisting the military government and the justice issue is part of what Prophets in the Old Testament are doing. So the third group, theologically, they are more liberal. And prophetically, they are resistance against military government.
So along with the first group and this third group, we can see there are different ways of protesting against the military government recently. Even though they have one faith, one Christian faith, but the way they respond to these military governments are different from one another. It's not just one form of protest. Some people, some Christians are more vocal. They go to the street to demonstrate against the military government. But some people still are trying to remain invisible or maybe less vocal.
Partly because they fear the military government because demonstrating in Myanmar is not like here in the US. Here in the US, if you go to the street, you can freely demonstrate. You have peace. But demonstrating in Myanmar is we have to fight against the people with the weapons. So that is life and death. We're not sure whether we'll come back alive. So some people are trying to stay away. I mean, trying to stay invisible or less vocal in terms of their protest.
Although they don't go to the streets to demonstrate against the military government, they try to go to church or they try to go to the church buildings to pray for this country. And what we can also see from this demonstration is we can see two examples here. In the northern part of Kachin, there's the Catholic nuns, those who go out to the street and bleed it with the armed forces, not to kill any protesters.
Kind of like they are involved in Jesus Christ as a peacemaker. They want to aback the police, not to kill any peaceful protesters. And another way of demonstrating against this government is CDM movement. Many people, not just Christians in Myanmar but different religious groups feel that this CDM movement is effective. And so, some Christians in our regions stopped going to the offices and stopped working in the society.
So this kind of protesting against the government is also very helpful among these Christians in our regions. And some people somehow withdraw their work. So they need somehow some money and things like that. So among Christians, we raise some funds to support these people. Let me clarify what do I mean by CDM. That's a short term sorry. CDM means Civil Disobedience Movement. This is a very nonviolent way of protesting against the government.
If we make this CDM movement effective, we feel that the government can not run their government. So that is what we're really hoping for. And there are many people among Christians who are involved in this CDM movement. And we really support this movement. And in terms of financial needs, we raise some funds among you, and so we really support this movement.
And lastly, what I can also see here is-- so now there are a number of Christian communities, not only in Myanmar but also in other countries, so we feel that the internal way of demonstrating against government is not enough. But living here in the US or in other parts of the world, we are trying to demonstrate against this government and making this demonstrating a way of our international community.
So we really feel that-- so our international community, people will also join in this demonstration in making our voice heard among their own community. So this is what I can say, and we'll have more discussions later. So thank you so much.
SUSAN HAYWARD: Thank you, David. And Wai Wai, we would love to hear from you now.
WAI WAI NU: Thank you. Thank you, Susan. And thank you up here for having us here. It's an honor to join this discussion. So when it come to Muslim-- just to give you a brief, I guess, overview of background the-- I guess, we don't have a specific statistic, exact statistics on the number of Muslims in Myanmar. But many of us estimate that it might be-- I mean, government said its 4% of the population. But we think it's larger than that.
It might be 4% to 7% of the Burmese, of the population in Myanmar among 55 million people. And among this Muslim group, one of the largest Muslim group is the Rohingya populations themselves. We were about 1 to 2 million. But now, we only have 600,000 left in Myanmar, in Rakhine State, and then a couple of hundred thousands outside of Rakhine State, living in different cities.
So that's somehow demography of the Muslim population in Myanmar. And among-- apart from the Muslim Rohingya, among other groups, others in the rest of the Muslim population are very, very diverse. We have many ethnic groups from many different backgrounds. Some are converts or some of Burmese national who traditionally belief in Islam for many, many years, for centuries. Some are Muslim tribes from China.
Some are Muslim tribes from Malaysia. And many of them, especially those living in a city like Yangon. A lot of their backgrounds are from-- perhaps from India or Pakistan. The descendant of those who were brought or came along during the colonial period to serve the country, Myanmar, under the British King for a long time ago. So this is really a diverse group of Muslim populations in Myanmar.
And so people have different culture, different-- I guess-- languages and beliefs and political views. But when it's come to the political movement, I guess-- it is hard to say what is exactly here. What I'm saying is that's my understanding and my perceptions, I guess. So what we have seen so far is that, yes, in this protest, Muslims are actively involved. A lot of them are. While many of them also stayed behind and stayed, not neutral but being cautious.
This protest is a little unique. I will go to that-- deeper a little bit later on. But I also wanted to recall that the Muslims' participation in Myanmar politics has been all the way back to the independence movement to all other protests and political processes in Myanmar. So during the 1988 Revolutions, there were many Muslim groups came out with the Islamic symbol and character to show that Muslims, themselves, support their protests.
And also, I'm sure there will be some-- there will be Muslim participation in the 2007 as well. I don't know detail. I can't recall. I was in the prison, so I don't have the evidence now. But I've seen, here and there, some photos from some of my colleagues in 2007 Revolutions. So what I'm trying to say is Muslim participation in this kind of major events and revolutions in Myanmar is not new. It's been there. But this time, people are being a bit more careful.
However, after a few days of that military coup, the Islamic Council of Myanmar, which include four major Islamic bodies, they released a statement denouncing the military coup. At the same time, when the protest has started, the Muslim-- actually, a lot of Muslim join the protest. But sometimes, they would show that a characteristic of like, I guess, the Muslim style of wearing or flex or symbol.
There are a lot of them came out with the Muslim symbol. But many Muslims in Myanmar do not necessarily show a lot of the Muslims' characteristics. Just like me, they might know I wear scarf, or they might not have beard. Like other would characterize as those as Muslim. So like that creates a lot of Muslim youth involved, as I know, including Rohingya youth. But they would not necessarily characterize as Muslim.
But on the other hand, there are groups that imam's groups and other groups like interfaith groups came up together to show their religion, to denounce the military coup publicly. So that is one trend like that. On the other hand, a lot of them mingle or integrated to the movement as individual as the citizens.
And so, I guess, in other words, a lot of the Muslims who participate in this protest feel responsible to respond to the crisis right now. And they got-- and they know there will be some acknowledgment or they may even face backfire or backlash for participating in these conditions because Muslim has been traditionally, as you know, highly marginalized and hated by the majority population in Myanmar.
However, we have seen some sympathy and some support for the Muslims' participation in Myanmar, in the protests on the social media. There has been a few Muslims who died over the past two weeks. And one of them was-- a few days ago, a member of NLD in downtown Yangon in [INAUDIBLE]. So he has been killed within a night of his arrest. And there has been some Muslim killed in Mawlamyine. And one particular young man, 19 years old, he was killed-- or who was shot dead.
And one interesting thing came out is that his identity card. So his identity card is a naturalized citizenship card which is a second-class citizenship card in Myanmar unlike in the United States or elsewhere. So this interesting factor that somehow raise awareness among the public. He gave life for the people, for the protests, for the freedom. But he was not regarded as a full citizen of the country.
So a lot of people started to realize how they have been marginalized and ignoring or discriminating the Muslim populations in general. So I think that is-- I mean, it is tragic that we lost people. But on the other hand, we are also seeing some support and some acknowledgment of that treatment towards Muslim populations. But based on my experience, I feel like-- I hope that this would last.
I hope that the solidarity and understanding, public awareness, the realizations that the common enemy is the military will last even after we gain freedom again, we gain democracy, we restore democracy, even until then. Based on my experience, I'm not very confident to say that. I've seen Burmese community is very easy to manipulate by the propaganda. So I'm kind of a bit of hopeful, at the same time, a little bit cautious and worried, Let's say being cautious.
Yeah, a lot of Muslims actually are being cautious and tried to stay behind and supporting from the back, supporting protesters, and CDM movement from the back by many means, not only just showing up in front of the-- in the protest but also providing financial support, material support. I've seen a lady providing food. So many forms of support has been there. One thing very interesting for the Muslims in Myanmar is that I don't think there has-- I have seen any support for them, for the military coup, the military dictatorship at all. So that is very unique, and I think that is very interesting.
And I hope that Burmese community will start to realize that the way Muslim has always stood up for the country and then continue to stand for and build this towards a more inclusive and fair country, build this situation to lead to such a country that we need, we envision for a long time. I'm going to end here. And I will be happy to take all the questions and answer you may have later on.
SUSAN HAYWARD: Thank you, Wai Wai. And Moo, if you could speak to us about the transnational Buddhist support.
SOMBOON CHUNGRAMPREE: Thank you, Susan. And good morning from Bangkok. First of all, I would like to introduce about International Network of Engaged Buddhists. We are the international network of the Buddhist activists around the world, established in the late '80s. During the '80s in Thailand, that is-- the number of the refugees either from Cambodia and Myanmar or Burma just came to Thailand. And from that side, we be of support.
For example, the Cambodians after the 1991 Peace Agreement, we helped to organize the Peace Walk, Dharma Yatra, for the refugees to return to Cambodia. And then after that, the 1988 the Student Uprising, there a number of them came to the Thai border. We also have to support the [INAUDIBLE] University for the students at the border. And then in mid '90s, we start to get involved inside Burma. And also to start our work with the Kachin people, the Kachin parties.
And then we start-- they're asking us to help to train the new generation of their leaders. And from that, we start to involve to different ethnic groups and also religious groups to train the leadership for Burma. We start with the Baptists. And then we work with the Catholic, with the Anglican , Church, with the Buddhists, and with the Muslim communities. And from that until now, we have over 1,000 alumni in Burma that start to organize different activities and set up different civil society groups, the NGO, and so on.
And also, we have the training on the Peace Leadership Training, also on the nonviolence mindful mediation and so on and so forth. And that also-- that influence inside Burma as well. As you know, Thailand also, we have the protests every day, with the youth, the young movement. And that also is because Thailand also running by the military government also.
In last August and September when this uprising in Thailand, I also helped to organize to have a Zoom link to the activist friends and also student groups in Myanmar to share experience between the youth in Thailand and also Myanmar. That also, we have many times of Zoom sharing. And that also, they learn from each other. And also-- part of that also, this is linked up with the Milk Tea Alliance, in the broader movement in Asia, which is Hong Kong, Taiwan, Thailand Myanmar.
That kind of link, that we have been connected. Since the coup took place, INEB, International Network of Engaged Buddhists, we issued a statement to demand for this the-- for the transition change and especially focused on the nonviolent means, and also, to have an inclusive dialogue process. And another aspect that we would like to say that is also-- all the leaders.
We have the Aung San Suu Kyi on [INAUDIBLE]. So they need to have the reflective space. That they should reflect on themselves, as an individual, as a person as well because a lot of things come from the personal aspect. Like for example, even the Aung San Suu Kyi also, need to reflect on the Rohingya issues, as well as the ethnicity issues. How that can lead into the federal democracy.
For Thailand, since the coup starts, now we set up the FAD, Friends Against Dictatorship, that also to help to support the CDM from Thailand side. What we can do to support them. At the same time also, we also educate the Thai people, Thai in public also, to understand the context of Burma, what the situation, as well as even the some issue that need to be introduced.
And also we did the campaigns like we linked up with the Burmese migrant workers in Thailand, also, to voice out from the Thailand side. Even support the students from Myanmar who are threatened by the immigrant-- those of the immigration officer in Thailand. So we are trying to stop doing a lawyer to support them. This kind of thing that we are helping from the Thailand side that is to our friends in the movement in Myanmar. Thank you for now.
SUSAN HAYWARD: Thank you to all three of you. And if you could all turn on your videos and join me. I have a few follow up questions for you. But I'm just really struck by a couple things off the bat. The first being, the extraordinary transnational networks that the religious communities have. So whether it's Christians or Muslims in diaspora who are showing solidarity, putting political pressure in their own home countries, sending material support.
Or the transnational links through different organizations that are involved in peace building, including through the Engaged Buddhist Networks. And the way, of course, that also reflects the Milk Tea Alliance. Some of the alliances that have formed between various democratic movements across Asia. But the distinctive ways in which religious networks across countries, across regions, across the world can serve as a funnel or a vehicle for providing support to those on the ground.
But secondly, reflected as well in the video remarks that were sent by Nong Nong Hom. The fact that there's different ways in which religious actors are responding. Some of them choose not to participate in the protests, either because of a sense of vulnerability or as a spiritual value, that to be involved in politics is not appropriate for a spiritual leader. And that some participate very much as a reflection of their spiritual commitments or an understanding of their spiritual roles.
So I have a question for each of you. David, I'll start with you. I wonder if you could reflect briefly on how these protests are different from those in 1988 and 2007. And how those differences-- what they might say about the ways in which this protest movement might be able to finally address some of the forms of cultural and structural violence that many ethnic and religious minority communities have faced?
DAVID MOE: Yes. Thank you, Susan. That is a great question. Yes, completely different from the previous two movements. Like in 1988, that movement was led mainly by the University students. And later on, of course, more people joined but not many Christians might have been joined in their protest. And again in 2007, that movement was led by the Buddhist monks. That's why we call it Saffron Revolution, right?
So Christians were silent in that two movements. And of course, at least they were not actively involved in the protests, in the revolutions. But in this movement, yes. Absolutely. Many, many Christians are involved in these protests, especially, the young people. The young people are more active in these protests partly because some of them have voted for the NLD this past November.
That might be the first vote ever in their life because Myanmar has been a military country for many, many years. They did not have a chance to vote. So this young generation had a chance to vote for NLD. Of course, this is not just between the NLD and the USDP government. Some people still might feel that way, but now, we feel that this is just a movement for everyone. So they feel that this is not just a partisan politics. This is just a national politics.
So they feel that this was their first time to vote for NLD and they really love democracy. So in that sense, more Christians inclusively get involved in this present protest. So completely different from the previous two. And one thing I also like to highlight, why a little bit older generations don't want to be involved? There might be several reasons. One reason might be they fear because demonstrating against the military government is not easy, not like here in the US.
They have weapons. They have to kill us. And second, this older generations might get used to living under the military government for many years. They get used to it. But this younger generation, this is something new. And for them, instead of living under the military government, it's better to die as the result of protests. So it is kind of really-- they have this brave spirit in their protests.
So some of their parents-- I talked to some of our Christians, those who are involved in these protests. Some of their parents are also not allowed-- they don't allow their children to go to the street actually because of vulnerability, because of the risk. But some younger Christians, they really involve in these protests, going to the street and protest against this government. So what I can see is completely different from the previous two movements. And this is more inclusive among Christian community.
SUSAN HAYWARD: Yes. So it seems that the process of the protest and in ensuring inclusivity also is a reflection of the goal that they're seeking. And as we wait and we hope and pray that that kind of inclusivity continues into the future. Wai Wai, a question for you. You are the head of the Women's Peace Network. And I know you participated and you follow the role of women, in particular, in activism and in this protest movement.
There was-- over the past few days, the women's laundry, that main tactic that was being used. And I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about that. But also the idea of spiritual power or that was being critiqued as a part of that protest movement.
WAI WAI NU: Sure. So it's been astonishing to see how the two main revolutions, we call it, has been very popular among the public against the military coup. Yes, traditionally, women's clothings lower-- clothings of women's lower body has been seen as culturally and spiritually seen as dirty.
And thus, if men-- if that women's clothing is put on top of that, like above the men head or on their body, it seems as weakening their masculine power upon. And it's bring-- it's also believed that it's bringing bad luck to the male, to the men. So it has a very strong belief that lies in there. And now, I mean, whether that believe is right or not, I'm not here to argue. But it seems like that has been widely practiced across the religion and cultures and ethnic groups in Myanmar as far as I know.
And now, women have find this to use against this masculine traditional belief against the very patriarchal military institution, masculine patriarchal military institution, itself. So, yeah, one thing, it's working because military immediately issued an order saying that those who hang or wave the women [INAUDIBLE] or lungi or sarong outside of their house or on the street will be punished by the Emergency Law 576 section D.
So clearly, it is working. They are terrified to see women lungi hanging everywhere where the protests are happening. And we have also seen photos of police going up there, taking down that [INAUDIBLE]. And all of these things are coming out. And it's been really, really interesting to see. And really feel like women's become-- women feel very empowered to see these-- empowered in a way that their clothing has been always been put like dirty, regard as dirty.
And suppress in a way, morally suppress women are, right? By this traditional or spiritual practices and beliefs. And men obtain so much power through this beliefs, right? So now, they feel like by resisting the military, by dissenting military with their own [INAUDIBLE] or underwear that is presumably dirty. And like terrorizing the military institutions has been very, very empowering for the women to feel and to see.
And also, as I said, it's very interesting to see that majority Burmese population are supporting it, otherwise, they wouldn't. They would-- women will be subjected to a threat to the cultural religions, otherwise. But now, because of the military that has been were seen as the solidarity for the women and support for this movement as well.
So for a lot of young women and young youth in Myanmar, the fight is not just about the fight against the military institutions or military dictatorship. The fight is not just about the restoration of NLD's power. It is actually the fight against the antidemocratic elements, antisexism patriarchy and racism, all of this.
Younger progressive male and women, and male and female, they are looking for even broader-- having broader ambitions and broader goal than restoration of the [INAUDIBLE] and NLD powers. Or then just merely a fight against the current coup. It's about the fighting against all of this militaries and military systems which has been deep strong and deep rooted into our politics as well as other form of, I guess, dictatorship, other form of repression, such as patriarchy and racism.
SUSAN HAYWARD: Wonderful. Thank you. It's a powerful movement trying to transform not just a political system but cultural and social and many other kinds of systems that have reinforced forms of domination. Moo, I'm going to challenge you. I have two questions that I want to ask you. And we have very little time. So I'm going to ask you to try to answer them as succinctly as you can.
And that is that I notice, as an observer, that there seems to be far more monastic participation of Buddhist monks and nuns in the protests in Burma than in Thailand. And I wonder if you think that's the case. And if so, why? And also, there's been a lot of participation of LGBT communities in both Thailand and in Burma in the protests. And if there's any reflections you have about how religious Buddhist actors and authorities have been responding to the participation or the visibility of LGBT groups?
SOMBOON CHUNGRAMPREE: Well, the monks in Thailand is more conservative and less political involvement. One, from the historical background that also because Thailand, they were being colonized. But Burma and Sri Lanka being colonized. And that they're using the religious power, religious force to against the colonization, that kind of thing also is being see to it into that culture, into the Buddhist movement also.
But Thailand didn't have that kind of aspect. Thailand is very much the man being patronized by the monarchs or by the government and so on and so forth. That kind of thing, they're just floating with their luxurious life. That's the thing. And regarding to the LGBT, I think it's really good, whether the protests in Thailand or Myanmar. Bring different groups to voice out. And also, Burma is more conservative regarding to the LGBT.
Thailand is more liberal even though we didn't have the law to look for the same sex marriage. But last year in February, I invited a [INAUDIBLE], a female monk from Taiwan, went about our way to Burma to Yangon. And also we have the [INAUDIBLE] in Yangon to share her experience. Because of her experience are quite inspiring to the LGBT rights group in Taiwan. And from that, they can move into the legalized the same-sex marriage which is the first country in Asia that to legalize this.
I think that also, in the future also, the group like CDM and so on. So should connect more into the different experiences in the region as well, even how that can connect to the feminist movement in India. That is growing. That kind of thing. I think we should connect more. And also that to work through this. That's why we set up our Friends Against Dictatorship, that kind of thing. We need to work hand in hand in our region.
SUSAN HAYWARD: Yeah, this is clearly a big need. And it's inspiring to see the kinds of transnational connections that are being made already because we know the forces of authoritarianism are also forging those kinds of transnational ties, the Sri Lankan and the Myanmar military and so on. So these kinds of networks for first, in support of justice and support of peace and to share creative ideas. We're seeing examples of that and more of it will only serve the cause better.
So as we leave, I want to give an opportunity to all three of you but not an obligation, to say one final word of hope about some of the religiously informed paths to support the protests and the goal. Does anybody want to answer that question as a final word? And please just keep it in one line if you can.
WAI WAI NU: I hope. I will try. So one hope, final hope that I could say is that there has been increasing like acknowledgment and realization of the violations against the Rohingya populations. So there you will see many Burmese people, especially the younger generation not from any leaders, though, but from the younger protesters and general people saying, we are sorry that we didn't stood up for the Rohingya.
So that has been very, very moving, very hopeful and very heart warming. I hope the leaders in the country started to realize that, too. And started to realize the Rohingya fundamental rights as people of Myanmar and help bring us justice for the crimes of genocide and crimes against humanity. So that is one thing that I want to say.
SUSAN HAYWARD: David, anything you wanted to add?
DAVID MOE: Oh, not that much. But someone put something about it is-- something that we could share or--
SUSAN HAYWARD: If you can just state it in one line since we're 1 minute over already, just what the CRPH is maybe.
DAVID MOE: Yeah, well, what we really hope is the success of the CRPH. CRPH simply means that is the new government organization represented by the elected Democratic Party. We may want international community to recognize this one, this organization. So that these can exist to fight against these unelected military government. So this new organization represents the civilian people because we really hope that this will be successful. But again, we really want international community recognize this organization. Thank you.
SUSAN HAYWARD: OK. Thank you. Moo, is there anything you would like to say as a final word?
SOMBOON CHUNGRAMPREE: We need to develop more spiritual friendships beyond religions, beyond ethnic cities. And also, Min Aung Hlaing and Aung San Suu Kyi should practice deep listening.
SUSAN HAYWARD: Yes. Thank you to all three of you. Thank you to all of you who joined us tonight. There is so much more that we could say. This is such a complex topic, and all of us are very passionate about it. So I hope that this conversation will continue that will have more opportunities to reflect and to share on this. But for tonight or for this morning, for those of you in Asia, we will end now so that you can go on with your day and with great gratitude for the contributions of all of our activists both in words today but for what you're doing on the ground to support the cause of justice and peace.
We thank you. It reflects the best of our religious traditions and compelling people to do extraordinary self-sacrificial things for the cause of the other and to reduce suffering. So again, thank you to everybody. Thanks to all of our cosponsors, and please stay in touch. And keep following the events that are being offered by the Religion and Public Life Program at Harvard Divinity School. Have a good night.
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